(Reprinted from Jacky X LSEPKU 2015.04.27 – Part 2 of 2, continued from 1. English version below)

柯成兴（Danny Quah）教授于1958年出生在马来西亚的槟城。柯成兴教授自2009年以来任北京大学-英国伦敦政治经济学院暑期学校的董事会主席，同时也是暑期学校的任课教师之一（“全球经济：对世界领导权和经济重心东移的再思考”，课程号LPS-EC205）。

柯成兴教授目前在伦敦政治经济学院经济学系和国际发展学系任教，兼任伦敦政治经济学院东南亚研究中心负责人，新加坡国立大学访问教授。柯成兴教授曾经为马来西亚国家经济建议委员会成员，并先后在英格兰银行、世界银行，新加坡财政部担任顾问。柯成兴教授早年的研究集中于美国经济周期等宏观经济学的传统领域，近年来的关注点逐渐转向国际宏观经济学，探讨世界经济重心的东移问题。

在本次独家专访的第二部分中，柯成兴教授与我们分享了他于六年前选择担任LSE-PKU暑期学校董事会主席一职的心路历程、自曝与“好基友”伦敦政治经济学院国际关系学教授Micheal Cox的“互掐”照片，也让我们得以发现柯成兴教授爱音乐、爱运动的时尚一面。

LSE-PKU Summer School = LPSS, 柯成兴 = 柯

LPSS：尽管您头衔众多，事务缠身，您仍然在2009年选择成为LSE-PKU暑期学校的董事会主席。您是否将LSE-PKU暑期学校视作您进一步了解中国的契机？这一决定的背后是否还有其他的动机？

柯：这是个非常好的问题。LSE-PKU暑期学校已经是一个非常成功的项目。让这个项目的成功得以延续下去，对我来说是非常重要的一件事。从每年的中国之行中，我学到了很多。与来自中国和世界其他国家的学生进行交流，让我有机会了解内情，并聆听新鲜、有趣的辩论。LSE-PKU暑期学校中无时无刻不在发生思想的碰撞，我认为这种交流至关重要。学生们也会从这种与普通大学生活迥异的经历中受益匪浅。

我选择LSE-PKU暑期学校还有一个方法论方面的原因。几十年前，一位开创真实商业周期分析的学者曾告诉我：“当你不再亲自从事研究，不再亲自演算模型，而只是指导学生校准和对你的模型加以模拟的时候，你的头脑就已经死掉了。”——不管一个学者在这之后带领团队发表了多少篇论文，他/她（在学术上）也不会有所突破了。因此对于我来说，亲自去观察中国的现实，亲自去参与辩论等等都是我工作的一部分，都是我必须要接近的“模型”。如果我不这样做，别人将不会信服我的研究。

LPSS：你希望学生从你的课程“全球经济：对世界领导权及经济重心东移的再思考”(LPS-EC205 The Global Economy:Rethinking world leadership and the great shift East)中学到什么？在LSE-PKU暑期学校为期14天的课程结束后，学生们能够收获的是一些具体的知识，还是看待这个世界的新角度，还是其他的一些东西？

柯：我希望以上都有！如果你看过我的课程大纲，你会知道这门课程首先当然会介绍事实和数字，它们都是得到实证研究支持的。但在这之后，我会问我的学生，这些经验证据与学术界对国际参与和全球政策制定的认识是否一致呢？我将指出，它们之间存在许多的分歧。接着，我会问我的学生，有哪些经济学和国际关系的理论可以解释这些矛盾。我希望让我的学生在第一时间来到最前沿的学术领域，然后我会问他们下一步应该如何做。

有人曾告诉我，同学们从彼此身上也获益良多。LSE-PKU暑期学校每天下午都有讨论课，来自中国境内外的同学们（比例几乎总是一半一半）会聚在一起讨论想法，互相辩论。他们带来了各自独特的视角的和独特的见解。在这之后，他们就会成为朋友，并会更好地了解彼此，更深入地理解不同的制度。我相信，学生们从本课程得到的收获至少有一半来自每天下午的讨论课环节。

LPSS：既然您如此推崇跨学科的研究方法，您是否曾经想过与Cox教授（LSE国际关系教授，并任LSE-PKU暑期学校的学术指导兼任课教师）一起合开一门课程？

柯：当然！这是一个非常不错的主意，我们已经在构思这件事了。就某些方面而言，它已然发生：虽然我们研究的着眼点仍然是不同，但当Cox教授和我上课的时候，我们经常能听到彼此引述另一个人的研究成果。Cox教授和我正尝试在LSE合开一门课程。如果进展顺利的话，我们可能将在暑期学校做类似的事情。这正是我们共同的想法，我们一定会将它付诸实践。

LPSS：自您担任LSE-PKU暑期学校的董事会主席一职以来，已经过去了六年的时间。与六年前相比，LSE-PKU暑期学校有哪些变化，又有哪些还是老样子？

柯：与六年前我刚刚接手时相比，LSE-PKU暑期学校最明显的变化是是它招生规模的大幅扩张——从一开始的几十个学生到现在的数百名学生，每年LSE-PKU暑期学校都能招到相当于LSE或普林斯顿（或其他非常杰出的高校）一年级本科班近半的学生数量。这是非常可喜的。

另外，LSE-PKU暑期学校的课程设置常变常新。虽然我的课程每年的报名情况都很乐观，我仍然会对我的课程内容进行调整。这是因为我的研究在进步，对于事物的理解也不断深入。例如，今年的一个大新闻是不久之前亚洲基础设施投资银行的组建——而它只是一连串变革的前奏而已。置于大背景之中来看，我们很可能会见证全球权力结构是如何发生剧变的。这些都是我需要在课堂上讨论的东西，于是我据此对今年的课程做了很大调整。

除了改换每门既有课程的授课内容外，我们也会开设新课。例如，与许多令人兴奋的课程一起开设的——我们已经有了关于城市化、国际法、管理和财务等领域的课程，而且所有的课程都明确地着眼于中国——是一门有关大数据与统计的课程（“大数据：商业数据分析及其他”，课程号LPS-MY201），这是一个在技术分析领域非常热门的话题。LSE-PKU暑期学校每年都会发生非常令人兴奋的进步。

那么什么还是老样子呢？我们的招生标准仍然很高，而且会始终将中国的经济与社会发展及中国的国际关系置于LSE-PKU暑期学校的核心。我希望，我们在变革中保持了那些优良传统，并不断地有所突破。

柯：（笑）嗯，我想我是的。

LPSS：我之所以会这么问，是因为您曾在微博上发过她的照片，还在以前的一次采访中提到过她。据我所知，您也是跆拳道方面的“大师级”选手（TAGB跆拳道黑带三段）。此外，您还是微博的一个重度爱好者，经常发布您与学生的照片（有时还有自拍！）。您所有的这些爱好都不属于一个“典型的”经济学教授——他们给人的印象总是死气沉沉，一脸严肃。可不可以说，正如您认为现代化的路不止一条一样，您也愿意接纳生活中的各种可能性？

柯：你将我不同的个人经历串联在了一起，这非常有趣。我做这些事情，首先是因为我确实喜欢它们。另一个原因是，我认为它们可以帮助我了解与经济学家不同的那些普通人。许多严肃的学者，特别经济学家们，认为他们的工作就是培养出和他们一样的学者来——于是他们不断地复制出微缩版的自己（mini-me）。这有利于产出严谨的学术成果，但这也会制造出一场“市场泡沫”，就像当年由投资银行家决定其他投资银行家们的薪酬时所发生的那样。2008年全球金融危机之后，民众纷纷认为银行家们自定薪酬是可耻的，这个制度必然走向灭亡。那么，当学者们坚持认为，只有每个学科之内的学者有权评判本学科其他学者的工作时，我们是不是正在重蹈银行家们的覆辙呢？对于某些学科，同行评议并不是问题：如果工程师没有做好自己的工作，桥梁会倒塌，交通系统将瘫痪，城市将无法正常运转。这是因为工程师有一个“现实感检验”（reality check）。对我来说，听泰勒·斯威夫特的歌曲，与粉丝在微博上互动，听“网络巨魔”（internet troll）们是如何喷我的——有时他们说的话很伤人——统统都是我的现实感检验。如果没有这种检验，我们有一天可能会突然意识到被卷入了一场庞氏骗局，或者市场泡沫。我们应该尽己所能，避免此事发生。

(English translation follows, reprinted from Jacky X LSEPKU 2015.04.22)

Models, Taylor Swift and Reality Checks
An Exclusive Interview with Professor Danny Quah
Part Two of Two

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Professor Danny Quah was born in Penang, Malaysia. He has been chair of the board of the LSE-PKU Summer School since 2009 and is also one of the teachers (LPS-EC205 Global Economy: Rethinking World Leadership and The Great Shift East).

As a Professor of Economics and International Development at LSE, and Director of the Saw Swee Hock Southeast Asia Centre, at LSE’s Institute of Global Affairs, Professor Quah works on the shifting global economy and the rise of the east. His current writing is on global hegemony and world leadership in global economic policy-making.

Yesterday, Professor Quah shared his ideas on "pride and prejudice in economics". Today, he will elaborate on the motivations behind his taking over LSE-PKU Summer School. We can hopefully know more about the life of “Danny” instead of “Professor Quah”as well.

LSE-PKU SUMMER SCHOOL= LPSS, Danny Quah =Danny

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LPSS: Despite many titles and responsibilities taken, you still chose to be Chair of the Board of the LSE-PKU Summer School ever since 2009. Do you regard this post as an opportunity to observe China more closely? Are there other motivations behind that decision?

Danny: Very good question. It is very important for me personally that the LSE-PKU Summer School continues to be successful—and I think it has been that. I learn a lot from being in China every year. Engaging with students from China and the rest of the world is an opportunity to see things from the inside and to listen to debate from people with fresh, open minds who want to understand. It is critical to see the kind of intellectual exchange that is happening when I participate in the LSE-PKU Summer School. I think students also learn a lot in a way that would not (be accessed) from the usual university experience.

But there is also a methodological side to this. Decades ago, a pioneer of real business cycles analysis said to me that: “the moment you stop doing the work yourself, but instruct others to calibrate and simulate your models, and never go near the model yourself, you’re intellectually dead.” No matter how many papers one gets their names onto as being the leader of a team, he/she will no longer progress. For me, my going to China to see the realities there first-hand and to take part in these debates: all this is the counterpart in my work to make sure that I am close to my model. If I don’t do this, I am not credible. I need to do this for my research.

LPSS: What do you expect students to benefit from your course The Global Economy: Rethinking World Leadership and The Great Shift East? Is it some concrete facts, or a way of seeing the world’s landscape or some other things that you wish them to take away after this 14-day session?

Danny: All of these, I hope! Since you have read my course outline, you are right that in the first instance, my course is about facts and numbers and driven by empirical evidence. Then I will ask if all this empirical evidence is consistent with the scholarly understanding of international engagement and global policy making. I will point out that there are many inconsistencies, then I will ask my students what economics and international relations can say about those inconsistencies. So I hope to quickly get my students to the frontier of our conventional understanding and I ask them what the next step ought to be.

I was told that students also learn a lot from each other. In the afternoon (of everyday of the summer school) students from within China and outside of China—nearly always having 50-50 mix—meet in class, discuss ideas and debate one another, bringing with them different understanding and different perspectives. After doing that they become friends and understand better one another as well as see more clearly how different systems work. My belief is that students who enroll in my class learn at least 50% of what they take away from these afternoon sessions.

LPSS: Since you take this multi-disciplinary method, does it ever occur to you that you may one day open a class jointly held by you and Professor Cox?

((ME Cox picture))

Danny: Definitely, we have considered that. It is a very good idea. In some ways, it has already happened that when Professor Cox and I teach, we often hear one another referring to what the other has been writing about. For instance, in Professor Cox’s course on the US, he always talks about some of the work that I am doing; and I in turn always talk about what they are doing. However, our focus and emphasis are still different. Professor Cox and I are experimenting with a co-taught course at LSE, so we may take a version of that course in the summer school, depending on how well it goes. It is something very much in our minds. We will definitely act on it.

LPSS: Six years have passed since you took the post of Chair of the Board of the LSE-PKU Summer School. Compared to what it was six years ago, what have changed in the LSE-PKU Summer School and what have not?

Danny: Compared to what the summer school was 6 years ago when I first took it over, the most obvious thing is how it has grown massively in size. From only a few dozens of students in the beginning to hundreds now, each summer at LPSS we enroll almost half a first-year undergraduate class at LSE or Princeton or other very distinguished colleges and universities. That is very gratifying.

The other thing I think about is how we constantly refresh our course offering. Even my course which is lucky to see good enrollment has changed. Research has evolved and our understandings have changed. For instance, just this year, a large event which has been unfolding just the last few weeks is the formation of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. This of course is just one in a sequence of changes. Whatever its significance taken by itself, viewed against that larger backdrop, we might well be seeing how within a very short period of time, the global power structure has completed changed—that is something we need to discuss in the class and is a large part of the revision of my course.

In addition to the contents within each course, we are changing also the courses that we give. For instance, this year among many exciting offerings, we will have a course on Big Data & Statistics (LPS-MY201 Big Data: Data Analytics for Business and Beyond), which is a very hot topic in technical analysis. We have courses on urbanization, international law, management and finance—all with an explicit focus on China. It is a very exciting evolution of the summer school.

What remains unchanged is that our standards remain high, and that the core of the Summer School centers on China’s economic and social development, as well as the international relations. I hope that in all these changes we manage to keep the good things, and continue to make even better things.

LPSS: Just out of curiosity—are you a fan of Taylor Swift?

Danny: (laugh) Yes, I suppose I am.

LPSS: I know it because you once posted her photo on Weibo, and mentioned her in a previous interview. As far as I know, you are also an “amateur expert” in Taekwondo. In addition, you are a heavy user of Weibo who keep posting your photos (sometimes selfies) with students. All those things do not belong to a “typical” professor who is supposed to be “serious”. Should I conclude that just as your belief in alternative ways to modernization, you are also open to many possibilities in your life?

Danny: It is very interesting to see how you connected all those things of my own life. I do those things because personally I enjoy them. I also do them because I find it helps me understand people who are a not just "like us". Many serious academics—economists in particular—take as given that their job is to train others to become just like them, they’re producing "Mini Me"—a smaller version of themselves. That’s a good system for producing serious science; but it’s also a good system for producing a market bubble—like when only investment bankers decide how other investment bankers should be paid. After the 2008 global financial crisis, everyone thought that the latter scheme was scandalous and of course bound to burst. However, are academics making the same mistake when we insist that it should only scientists in a particular discipline who judge others similarly in their field? For some disciplines, it is not a problem: for instance, if engineers don’t do their jobs right, bridges will collapse, transportation system will fail, and cities will not work. It is because engineers have a reality check. For me, listening to Taylor Swift, engaging with other people on Weibo, hearing what “internet trolls” have to say to me on Weibo—sometimes it can be painful and hurtful—these are all my reality checks. Without that reality check, we may one day wake up and realize that we have just been running a Ponzi scheme, or a market bubble. We should do everything we can to make sure that does not happen.